Elon Musk claimed that an audit performed below the Division of Authorities Effectivity recognized between $100 billion and $200 billion price of annual funds he referred to as “zombie funds,” making it the clearest clarification he has ever offered for the hassle he briefly led in the course of the early years of Donald Trump’s administration.
Musk’s feedback got here throughout a podcast interview revealed Tuesday that rapidly went viral, pertaining to the whole lot from immigration and synthetic intelligence to colonizing Mars and metaphysics. The 53-minute episode, hosted by Katie Miller, a former Trump administration aide and spouse of White Home adviser Stephen Miller, was posted on X and garnered greater than 1 million views inside hours.
The dialogue centered on the origins of DOGE, Musk’s coverage views, and reflections on his time since leaving the place in Might. Musk stated the Division of Authorities Effectivity, referred to as DOGE, started with casual discussions and was constructed round options on the web.
“The identify Doge is a made-up identify,” he stated, explaining that somebody on-line prompt “Division of Authorities Effectivity, DOGE.” “So we sort of created a division.”
Musk stated DOGE has managed to maneuver ahead regardless of resistance to authorities cuts.
“We had some success, which meant we stopped plenty of funding that actually didn’t make sense,” he stated. “It was an entire waste. For instance, there have been most likely $100 billion a yr, perhaps $200 billion price of zombie funds.”
@elonmusk episode:
0:00 — Introduction
1:13 — The start of DOGE
2:22 — Was DOGE a hit?
3:51 — Will Elon DOGE once more?
5:40 — Importing unlawful immigrants
7:00 — Ideas on Ilhan Omar
7:56 — AI and robots will substitute jobs
9:59 — Elon’s greatest irrational concern
10:17 —… pic.twitter.com/AaXsKQ5On0— Katie Miller Podcast (@katiemillerpod) December 9, 2025
Requested whether or not he would repeat the expertise, Musk stated he had no intention of doing so. “As a substitute of becoming a member of DOGE, I feel I used to be primarily working by myself firm,” he stated, arguing that his efforts to cease improper funds prompted important backlash. He stated politically-linked makes an attempt to cease the circulation of funds have made it tough to proceed working.
The interview additionally delved into immigration coverage, a long-standing precedence for the Millers. Mr. Musk criticized the shortage of enough controls on unlawful immigration and argued that rising automation would pressure public sources and improve labor market pressures. He linked the difficulty to broader financial uncertainty, saying AI and robotics would take away many roles, and referred to as for retraining applications and new types of social assist.
In relation to expertise, Musk has repeatedly warned in regards to the potential for AI to remodel employment, whereas defending the necessity for U.S. management.
“AI and robotics will be capable of present all the products and providers that anybody may probably need,” he stated. He added that lots of his predictions don’t mirror his personal preferences: “Persons are confused about it. They suppose that what I predicted would occur is what I need to occur.” He stated AI was even shaping his sleep patterns: “I had nightmares about AI for days on finish.”
He pointed to continued efforts in xAI towards synthetic normal intelligence and humanoid robotics, and added that latest advances in machine studying assist his long-standing curiosity in simulation concept.
“I’ve a concept about predicting the long run: Essentially the most attention-grabbing end result is the probably,” he stated. “If simulation concept is correct, that is smart, as a result of if in case you have folks simulating completely different futures, they will cease simulating once they get bored. That is what we do in actual life.”
Aerospace manufacturing firm SpaceX additionally made headlines, with Musk highlighting improvement on the firm’s Starbase base in Texas and reiterating the concept human growth past Earth is important for long-term survival. He characterised the colonization of Mars as each an engineering problem and a civilizational crucial. Musk stated in April that he goals to ship a Tesla Optimus robotic to Mars in 2026.
Musk additionally commented on and condemned the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. He stated the episode highlighted rising safety issues in public life.
The dialog turned to private particulars, with Musk explaining his back-to-back assembly schedule and including that he sleeps six hours an evening. He additionally stated he tried to dispel irrational fears.
“I strive to not have irrational fears. If I see an irrational concern, I attempt to quell it,” he stated. “I do not suppose concern kills the soul,” he added, quoting a basic line from Frank Herbert’s “Dune.”
